Curse

BlackSephir · Oct 17, 2007, 04:08 PM // 16:08

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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

You can try to argue against me all you want.

You can try to argue against maths all you want. What, was I wrong somewhere?

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And the fact you completely ignored the potential 20k+ points from the handbook and 30k from the dungeon book just shows your not even listening to me.

Are you even listening to yourself, genius?
Maybe I'll quote you to help you out.

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Im sorry you dont believe me, but im not lying. I had rank 5 on all races withinn a week of playing. I started on 0 vangard and Asura and within a week I had rank 5 on both from simply doing quests, dungeons and taking bounties as I explored.

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I started on 0 vangard and Asura and within a week I had rank 5 on both from simply doing quests, dungeons and taking bounties as I explored.

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I had rank 5 on both from simply doing quests, dungeons and taking bounties as I explored.

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rank 5

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quests

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dungeons

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bounties

Where the hell is here even a word about giving books?

freekedoutfish · Oct 17, 2007, 05:21 PM // 17:21

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Originally Posted by BlackSephir

...

BlackSephir your trying to argue against something which is fact! It doesnt matter what calculations you have done or whether you include the handbooks or not.

I attaind rank 5 on all races by just playing the game, and yet your trying to suggest thats impossible.

Yet I did it!!!

It thats simple... I really dont get why you have an issue with that? Have I offended you somehow, or hurt your feelings because I got rank 5 on all and you seem to be having trouble?

As for mentioning books. Thats my point. I managed rank 5 very easily on all before this huge advantage from the books. So its staggeringly easier now!

Dougal Kronik · Oct 17, 2007, 05:41 PM // 17:41

It's way too easy to get to Rank 5 by just playing through the game.

/not signed

wu is me · Oct 19, 2007, 05:39 AM // 05:39

what about for the other titles then? any objections?
fish?
doug?

bilateralrope · Oct 19, 2007, 05:47 AM // 05:47

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Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

It's way too easy to get to Rank 5 by just playing through the game.

/not signed

So because you can quickly reach a point that is not even a quarter of the way through 4 of the titles I'd like changed, you are rejecting changes to all of them ?

BlackSephir · Oct 19, 2007, 06:28 AM // 06:28

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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

blah

Maybe that's because I'm an atheist but I don't believe every stupid crap people post on the internetz.
I did my math and turns out you earned 13400 rep by 'exploring' 3 small areas.
Right.

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As for mentioning books. Thats my point.

No, your point was that you can get R5 in every faction just by doing: quests, dungeons and getting bounties. I'm tired of quoting myself and moreover, I'm tired of quoting you because it turns out even you can't read your god damn posts.

Ontopic: I don't care if my necro will be able to wield the Asuran title but on my ass I'm R6 Asura and it'd pain in the ass to do the same things just so Pain Inverter could work properly.

freekedoutfish · Oct 19, 2007, 11:54 AM // 11:54

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Originally Posted by BlackSephir

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Believe me if you want to, your choice! Its no loss to me!

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Originally Posted by wu is me

what about for the other titles then? any objections?
fish?
doug?

If you look back on another post I made, I clearly stated that I can understand certain titles being made account based.

Titles such as wisdom and treasure hunter which have HUGE levels to max and which will truly take a long time and alot of gold to do.

But the reputation ranks are a joke at how easy they are to max out. I even found out last night you can pay to have your NM handbook and dungeon book filled (although I think that only works once).

I went from rank5 to rank8 Asura within 5 seconds by doing that and it cost pittance!

This is combined with the huge amount of points you get now from filling them in NM and HM. It really is laughable that people are still complaining about getting rank 5 reputation points in GWEN anymore.

But yes... some titles should be account based, but only those which are really hard to do or take a staggering amount of time to do.

bilateralrope · Oct 19, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

But yes... some titles should be account based, but only those which are really hard to do or take a staggering amount of time to do.

And where do you draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable grind ?

freekedoutfish · Oct 19, 2007, 10:33 PM // 22:33

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Originally Posted by bilateralrope

And where do you draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable grind ?

And how do you define grind?

Grind IMO is something that cannot be achieved by simply playing the game as you normally would, via the storyline and quests and dungeons and missions.

Grind IMO is also when you are expected to do the same thing excessively to reach a max level.

In terms of the reputation points.. those can be achieved very easily by doing that. Regardless of what some narrow minded posters continue to spout, you can achieve rank 5 on all races by just doing all the content.

Not to mention the 20k+ points from handbooks and dungeons books depending on HM and NM.

Not to mention the fact you can pay to have atleast one NM handbook and one NM dungeon book filled for you and then hand them in.

Not to mention that you can replay all quest and dungeons with new books in both NM and HM and soon max all reputation titles.

How much easier do you want reputation ranks to be? Those ranks dont require excessively repeating the same stuff! Your talking maybe 2 or 3 times.

But wisdom and treasure hunting isnt something you can do by just playing the storylines and all contents. It requires opening chests and ID'ing drops in your own time and excessively repeating the same stuff ALOT.

Neither widsom or treasure hunting titles are hard, but they require huge, excessive amounts of time. This is compared to getting rank 5 on all races within a week of playing. This is compared to getting rank 8 on all races within a month of playing.

Grind is all about perspective and what you do and dont like doing, what you
want and dont want and how much effort you willing to put in.

But the point with the reputation points is that it doesnt require any effort outside of the storylines or quests or dungeons. You earn those points basically doing what you would do anyway.

While treasure hunting requires you to open chests over and over and over and over again, which has NOTHING to do with the storyline or missions or quests and dungeons... other then the tiny few you might come accross during them.

Bottom line is that no grind is fun or acceptable, but nothing that requires staggering amounts of grind is critical. And things such as reputation points and elite armor and skill hunting and exploration dont require huge amounts of grind and they are optional.

But wisdom and treasure do, but are those really important?

hopefulliness · Oct 20, 2007, 03:01 AM // 03:01

I sorta have to agree with freekedoutfish here... with the adition of the high faction gain for books, this thread should not even be alive anymore. i mean lets use logic here, if u want 1 set of armor(even if its ebon vanguard) then you have to do the storyline and hand in the book, that should equal almost 26k(if not, quest for like 5 seconds)

. If however you want 2 sets of the presitge armor, then some grind should be necissary, i mean, you grinded for the cash right? In all those armor, for all the classes, i see 1 ranger armor, and 1 dervish armor that are not craptastic reskins so i dont see why you even want them in the first place

bilateralrope · Oct 20, 2007, 03:17 AM // 03:17

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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

And how do you define grind?

Grind is any time where your rewarding for completing a task multiple times, especially if the task gave you no trouble the first time. The only way a task can be repeated without calling it grind is if you didn't complete it well enough the first time (eg, your repeating it to get under a time limit).

Note that I'm using a definition that calls it grind if your only required to do the task successfully twice.

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Grind IMO is also when you are expected to do the same thing excessively to reach a max level.

And where is the line between excessive and not excessive ?
Why do you put the line there instead of one repeat either side ?

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In terms of the reputation points.. those can be achieved very easily by doing that. Regardless of what some narrow minded posters continue to spout, you can achieve rank 5 on all races by just doing all the content.

And what is so important about rank 5 ?
The armor is vanity only, so I don't care about it. And at rank 5 your not even a quarter of the way through the title.

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How much easier do you want reputation ranks to be? Those ranks dont require excessively repeating the same stuff! Your talking maybe 2 or 3 times.

Can we stop confusing difficult tasks with tasks that simply take a long time please ?

The grind titles are titles that take a long time because you have to repeat the same tasks, even if you had no trouble the first time. And if you had no trouble the first time, how can you claim that its a difficult task if it simply requires you to repeat that task again ?

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But wisdom and treasure hunting isnt something you can do by just playing the storylines and all contents. It requires opening chests and ID'ing drops in your own time and excessively repeating the same stuff ALOT.

Neither widsom or treasure hunting titles are hard, but they require huge, excessive amounts of time. This is compared to getting rank 5 on all races within a week of playing. This is compared to getting rank 8 on all races within a month of playing.

With the titles being character based its one month per character. So I'm looking at 7 months across all my characters, assuming I only work towards the titles (instead of say, helping guildies with their tasks). And rank 10 is the max, not rank 8.

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Bottom line is that no grind is fun or acceptable,

Yet the reputation titles require grind to max them out, and maxing them out gives stat bonuses (however minor those bonuses are).

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but nothing that requires staggering amounts of grind is critical. And things such as reputation points and elite armor and skill hunting and exploration dont require huge amounts of grind and they are optional.

If a player is less skilled than another, then the first player might require a stat bonus for the same task that the second player doesn't. So what level of player skill do you use to decide if a stat bonus is required or not for a particular task ?

GiZMo · Oct 20, 2007, 04:39 AM // 04:39

/signed x 1000000

for players who would want the recognition of "Source of Wisdom" title they have to max out the title for each character, doing it 10x the effort, given they have one of each class in PvE. No one gives credit that someone's MONK or RANGER has one of these titles but rather the fact that the player has attained such title, so being able to flash it on any of your characters shows YOU (the player) has accomplished this and don't have to always come back to the main character that aqcuired it to show it off.

Hott Bill · Oct 20, 2007, 04:45 AM // 04:45

It useful as that would be, it does not make any sense at all. Max a title on 1 char and use that titles effect on all other chars.

arcanemacabre · Oct 20, 2007, 06:43 AM // 06:43

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Originally Posted by Hott Bill

It useful as that would be, it does not make any sense at all. Max a title on 1 char and use that titles effect on all other chars.

Well, tell that to the Kurzick/Luxon Faction, then.

freekedoutfish · Oct 20, 2007, 10:45 AM // 10:45

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Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Grind is any time where your rewarding for completing a task multiple times, especially if the task gave you no trouble the first time. The only way a task can be repeated without calling it grind is if you didn't complete it well enough the first time (eg, your repeating it to get under a time limit).......

With the titles being character based its one month per character. So I'm looking at 7 months across all my characters, assuming I only work towards the titles (instead of say, helping guildies with their tasks). And rank 10 is the max, not rank 8......

So..

1) Your idea of grind is anything that has to be done more then once?

You must consider missions, quests and dungeons as grind in that case because those are the main aspect of the pve side and you have to re-do those every single time you make a new char. Should we make it so that if one character has completed a mission, then all your characters have completed it?

That way you dont have to redo them! Obviously that is just a daft idea and I hope you dont like it.

You will struggle to find any game in existance that doesnt contain what you define as grind. All games on the market have aspects that you re-do or re-play.

But again.... why do you need to have max reputation or other max titles on all your characters? Is it a necessity or a choice?

2) Im sorry if this sound incensitive, but ive said this before. You knew fine well when you created those 1-8 other characters that you would have to re-play the same content. Its no ones fault but your own if you have to replay stuff.

You should have considered that before you made so many at one time. Im not suggesting people dont create other characters, but have some common sense.

If you create 9 chars at once and play them all at the same time (more or less) then the content will soon get boring and feel like grind.

But if you create 1 or 2 and finish them off before creating a new character then the content lasts longer and doesnt feel like such a grind. Its just common sense.

You dont read 9 books at once and then complain you've read all the books you have. You read one or two books at a time and make it last longer.

The point is if you want the content to feel fresh for longer and you dont want to be re-playing everything over and over and over again, then dont create so many characters at once.

Make 1 or 2 and play them all the way through and then do another! You cant blame Anet and say "oh this game is all grind" if your the one playing 9 characters at once and it all feels repetative!

3) But as ive said, some titles should be account based like the ones which cant be achieved by just doin the storyline. But reputation ranks CAN. Try to accept that! Anet is only expecting you to complete the game to get rank 5 and then replay some quests and dungeons once or twice to get max levels.

And you can also pay to fill your NM books atleast once... that is a huge advantage.

spiritofdead · Oct 20, 2007, 11:30 AM // 11:30

/Signed

I am sure a lot of us have a life outside of playing Guild Wars, even if you are hard-core gamer you are going to need to devote all of your gaming time on GW getting grind-based title. I do not have as much free time to play Guild Wars as I used to do therefore by the time I have time to play, I don't think I want to repeat doing the same thing over and over again. Beside if I recall Anet said Guild Wars reward player by their skill not by how much time they have spend in the game or something along those line.

elektra_lucia · Oct 20, 2007, 12:07 PM // 12:07

/Signed

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Originally Posted by spiritofdead

/Signed

I am sure a lot of us have a life outside of playing Guild Wars, even if you are hard-core gamer you are going to need to devote all of your gaming time on GW getting grind-based title. I do not have as much free time to play Guild Wars as I used to do therefore by the time I have time to play, I don't think I want to repeat doing the same thing over and over again. Beside if I recall Anet said Guild Wars reward player by their skill not by how much time they have spend in the game or something along those line.

What he said.

Red Sonya · Oct 20, 2007, 12:49 PM // 12:49

/unsigned

Anet has a reason they programmed it the way that it is. People should learn to except the way the game is designed instead of wanting Anet to redesign it the way they want just so they don't have to do something they don't like or want to do. I find that childish in people for the most part. But, I guess we have a lot of babies playing this game.

Buttermilk · Oct 20, 2007, 06:40 PM // 18:40

/signed
Great idea! Plain and simple

Oh and by the way, Red Sonya, we have a community for a reason. If those things you mentioned were true, then how come they changed Favor of the Gods and HA? (Just to mention a few)
A community is for discussing and suggesting new ways for the franchise to develop. In the end, the designers are always the ones to decide, of course.

But, I guess we must have some babies playing this game.

Origin · Oct 20, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

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Originally Posted by Red Sonya

/unsigned

Anet has a reason they programmed it the way that it is. People should learn to except the way the game is designed instead of wanting Anet to redesign it the way they want just so they don't have to do something they don't like or want to do. I find that childish in people for the most part. But, I guess we have a lot of babies playing this game.

You, sir, make an excellent point. One question though... Why would one spend their time by working (or otherwise: doing something unpleasant) in game for acquiring something that is part of something he paid (worked before he could buy it) for? Oh...wait a second -- it's because ANET designed it that way... Very well...let's work in RL instead of grinding so I can buy another game, where I could play!